Gelap Pekat

Sometimes after interviewing and hanging out with a band for a big feature, you come back, look over your notes, listen back to your tapes, and you're like, Shit, I got nothin'. What the hell am I gonna put in this story? Then there are times, when you have such a wealth of material that you're like, What the hell am I gonna leave out? Such was the case when I returned from spending two days with Metallica down in Nashville, Tennessee, for our cover story on them in the new issue of Revolver, on newsstands everywhere now. From hours of interviews to endless anecdotes (like the time, during our photo shoot, that Lars' youngest son popped in and asked his dad why he was wearing makeup. Lars explained that everyone wears a little powder and touch-up for shoots, to which little Ulrich responded: "That's sad." Everyone in the room laughed, and Lars sighed, "Thanks. Way to make me feel less like a sad, old man."), whittling all the material down to a tight, streamlined story was tough. But thanks to the Interweb, all the extra shit need not go to waste. So I'll be posting the best of the rest of my chats with the Metallica dudes right here, a different dude each week?so make sure and check back. First up was the newest member of the band, bassist Rob Trujillo; next, longtime lead guitarist Kirk Hammett, and then drummer Lars Ulrich. Finally, up now, frontman James Hetfield.

REVOLVER When's the last time you played a venue this size? [At the time of this interview, Metallica had just finished playing an approximately 150-person-capacity Nashville, Tennessee, club called the Basement...which you should know already, if you've read the Revolver cover story.]

JAMES HETFIELD Let's see. That size. Let's see. Metal Joe's Basement?that was actually a basement. I guess the Fillmore is not that small for sure. What's the last time we played...I mean, that just totally reminded me of Kill 'Em All, completely. You know, you can only play a little more than 45 minutes, supporting Raven on the "Kill 'Em All For One" tour, in '83, going across the States in a Winnebago. I think we played probably 45 minutes, something like that, before them. Sweaty, hot, just fun. Couldn't hear what the hell I'm singing. Couldn't hear anything except volume.

I was talking to that guy [Ron from New York...again, read the cover story] that you called out during the show, who followed you guys through Europe. He told me that this was his 102nd Metallica show.

It's bordering psycho. [Laughs] It's kind of scaring me. You know, it's like, Dude, don't you have a girlfriend or something? You know, settle down somewhere. I was joking with him, saying "Where is everyone from?" and I was like, "You don't know where you're from; you're all over the place." But it is so unbelievably cool to walk out onto the stage?besides just walking on the stage, how cool that is?and you see this guy down in the front, and he's been to, like you said, the last hundred-and-something odd shows and has not missed a show. And you look down and there he is, Ron in his wife-beater, right in the front. He's got this lockdown technique where no one gets around him or by him. He just locks down, and there he is up against the barricade. He's rocking the whole time. He's a pretty big guy, so he can get up there, but he beats us to the shows. I was like, How do you get there? We leave before you and you're there before us. That's crazy. That's dedication.

One of the things that really struck me about this show was the almost family-like vibe. Almost as soon as you guys came in and started interacting with the crew and with the fans and with each other, and then interacting onstage as a band, it really felt like a get-together of this big?or not so big, in this case?extended Metallica family. Is that sort of how you feel about it?

Oh, yeah. We're all there for the same reason. We're looking for happiness and a release and some kind of an acceptance in a group, you know. We're all having a blast, and the music brings it, you know. And the energy that just goes back and forth, you know, you can't describe it. I don't know where you could create that anywhere else. Some other artists, say, that paint or create sculptures or do something, their ultimate thing is that they finally finished their sculpture and they go put it into a room, you know, and people come by and look at it. I guess that's the ultimate for them, but for us, you know, we create a song that is in us, and it moves with us. And we play it, and people take it with them. And it creates certain feelings. It's something that they get to do, too. You know, they get to sing it and, you know, this is...I can't think of anything better to do in life.

I know that the mission statement behind this new album was to kind of try to tap into the early hunger of albums like Master of Puppets. But obviously, that's kind of impossible to do, so what is the hunger now? What, if anything, does Metallica feel like they need to prove now?

What do we need to prove? We need to prove that it lives in us. It's not so much our career; it is our life. Besides being a dad and being a loving family, I don't know what else I would do. If I wasn't doing this, I would be trying to do it, simple as that. What are we hungry for? There's always something: the hunger to write the better album, the hunger to write the better song, create the ultimate lyric, get the ultimate guitar sound. I mean, I'm never satisfied. I go back and listen to some of these records and go, Man, no, no. Yeah, the songs are good, but the sounds.... Always, always striving for the better something. Some of it's the perfectionist in us. Then I guess also the other thing is survival. A band like us being together, you know, 26, 27 years. It doesn't happen every day. There's not a whole lot of bands that can claim that. We're pretty fortunate we've stayed kind of a household name for that amount of time, and to still be loving it and doing it and being pretty much the same guys in the band, and we're sitting here on a bus doing it again. [Both laugh] It is a nicer bus than in 1983. We have doors that I push a button, they go woop, they close; you've got direcTV; you've got high def; you've got microwaves. You know, there's a shower in the bus! [Laughs] Not saying that there aren't bands out there that pay dues, but this is pretty nice.

Are you guys kind of surprised that this many years later you are still the biggest metal band in the world?

Oh, yes and no. I mean, we don't take it for granted. It is a huge gift and the dedication that we put into it is what we get out. It's as simple as that. If you put hard work or hard dedication or, you know, focus your powers and your ideas to something, you'll get results. If you start taking it for granted, you know, and get absorbed, self-absorbed in the material objects that come to you because of that, then you might not stick around. You know, we've gone through those points, each one of us at different times?you know, the Porsche and the this and that. Everyone kind of just slaps each other around and says, "Hey, wake up!" The real thing is the gift of creation and connection with someone that understands your music or needs it for an energy. But, yes and no. We're somewhat surprised but not, because this is what we wanted to do; Lars and I especially, you know. Lars, in high school, he had drawn that "Metal up your ass." Thunderfuck, I think, was the name of the band. Metallica, I think, is a little better name. [Laughs] I don't think Thunderfuck would...I wouldn't be sitting here having an interview with you after 27 years. But it's a vision, and it's still in our vision.

What did you think of Rick Rubin's mission statement, his mantra of "Go back to what you were thinking with Master of Puppets," when you guys first started working on this new record?

It's tough, you know. It's really tough. We know so much. We know how to get sounds. We know how to manipulate what we need here. We know how to make a song that's OK into a song that's pretty good?it might not be great but pretty good. Oh, man, how do we erase the knowledge and do something very, very now but with the essence of Puppets? How do you get the essence of Puppets? Difficult, but OK, we both have egos. Metallica has an ego. Rick Rubin has an ego. Yes, he's "Zen master" and all of that, but when Rick Rubin shows up, he's Rick Rubin and he's coming in. He wants to be respected. I think Metallica in the past has been really good at unshining the ego of others, you know. Stripping people down. It's kind of one of our things. We worked with Rick long enough we'd probably be doing this, you know, dragging him down. There's something great about ego obviously, but if it gets in the way of creation then it's not good. But the guy has got an amazing discography, great track record. It's not luck. The guy knows what he's doing. So for us to trust enough, and for us to be able to get as much of our input in there as possible. Every idea was tried. It just took longer.

I have to ask this, as a fan: Did you have much interaction with Rick when you tracked your vocals for the first Danzig record?

Ah, yes. [Thinking] Yeah. Yeah, he was there. That was the first time I actually worked with him. I showed up, I was more in awe of "Hey, that's Danzig!" I don't remember what the direction was. "OK, yell it more. OK, try singing it more. OK, try this." We just did a bunch of different stuff and said, "OK, that's it." "OK, thanks. We'll call you." [Laughs]

To what extent do you guys keep up with what's current in metal? And to the extent that you do, why do you do it? Are you a fan of newer stuff? Is it kind of part of your job, do you think, to stay tuned into what's going on?

That's pretty interesting. It's very interesting because I think Lars and Kirk are very knowledgeable magazine-wise. Maybe Kirk because, you know, he's just obsessive-compulsive. He's just got to have a magazine all the time, you know: Rolling Stone, or Revolver, or whatever it is, keeping up on all this stuff. And it's weird because it's like, yeah, this is my gig, this is my life. But I don't really read who's going out with who, and who put out what, or, hey, he's jamming with that. I kind of hear it secondhand from the guys. I don't know. There's probably a part of me that just really despises gossip, and when news and gossip fuse, it kind of bugs me. So, I don't really keep up with all of this stuff. Just like, if I was a mechanic, would I be reading car magazines all the time? I don't know. I'm not a mechanic but I like car magazines. There's some guy that works in a shop, I'm sure he's reading the metal mags. But I do know what I like. I hear bands. I browse through stuff, hear a name of this band, OK, check 'em out. There is stuff that I really like. And there's stuff you rediscover, like I'm just going through this phase: The Bay Area was frickin' amazing in '84, '85. That era is like, holy smokes, man. The decade back from Ride the Lightning, it was going on. Obviously before that there was Exodus and all this stuff, but, boy, it was huge, huge then in the Bay Area. We're so proud of being a part of that and kind of getting nostalgic about it. But this band Machine Head, the two of the guys who were in Vio-lence [frontman Robb Flynn and lead guitarist Phil Demmel], we just did some dates with them over in Europe. And man, I couldn't get enough. It was unbelievable.

Yeah, they rule.

They're so heavy, and super-friendly. They get it, and they love it. The last album, The Blackening, unbelievable. Unbelievable sound, power. It sounds like a band on fire. They have really turned it on again for me. And then this band Mnemic, which, you know, I like. We've done some other shows with them. There's a lot of real intense stuff out there that I like. Sometimes vocals really do turn me off, you know.

Yeah, me, too.

It'll go from [growls] to [in high-pitched voice] la, la, la. And then all of a sudden, whoa, what happened? The pop chorus came in. It's like, wait a minute, you guys are still a little too attached to nu-metal. It's like, ugh, it's so predictable. It gets old very quick. But dude, there are some insane players out there. These, what I call "bedroom guitar players," you know, obviously DragonForce, stuff like that but not just them. There are so many, and not just guitar players, drummers are blowing me away with their feet, with their hands, they are the Yngwie of drummers. Almost to the point that it's too good. It's too unbelievably precise. It's like, oh no, it's prog rock again. But it's unbelievable to hear some of these guys play together.

Well, you guys' new record seems to be more technical than ever. Is that something where you feel that you were being pushed by this newer generation into proving you could top that, or is it more organic?

I think there's no lack of that in our catalog. ...And Justice for All was kind of our show-off record, I'd say. But just trying to get 16 riff CDs into 11 songs. So we gotta take eight riffs and just shove them into that. That's not new for us either, trying to shove as many riffs into one song as possible. And that was probably something that I'm guilty of winding Kirk up with. You know, "Wow, did you hear this guitar player? Check it out!" Or seeing these dudes on the instructional videos. "OK, play it faster," wirrreeww. "OK, faster,"wirr. "OK, faster," rirrr. Like, holy shit. I think it really made Kirk step up. He's playing really amazing, again. I think it's great to hear Kirk doing solos, again. But yeah, there's the Thin Lizzy dual guitar going on. I've always loved doing it. I mean, as soon as [Metallica's original bassist, the late] Cliff [Burton] showed me what a harmony meant, that was it.

REVOLVER You guys all seem to be getting along really well these days.

LARS ULRICH Yeah, you know, the main question I get fed every day is this thing about, Is the band still in some kind of turmoil? And it's like, That was fucking six years ago. That's a fucking career and a half for most people. That's a lifetime. Six years ago?it's a long time and things aren't like that anymore. ["Performance-enhancing coach"] Phil [Towle] always said that the work we were doing on the St Anger project, the real benefit to that was not gonna be on the St Anger record, it was gonna be on the next record. And he was right about that. It's been a real chill experience for the last couple of years, you know. There's been no psychiatrist, there's been no film crew, there's been no producer hanging around; it's just been us. Kirk hasn't even been there long because he's been living out mostly in Hawaii, and Rob's been there. But it's been pretty chill and it's been real nice. Just low key, everybody's kind of getting along and having fun. But like, the St Anger stuff and the movie, and the whole thing, you know, that's lifetimes ago. You know what I mean? I can understand people sitting and going, "Last thing we heard from Metallica was you yelling 'Fuck!' in James' face," but, you know, six years ago?in Metallica years, it's many lifetimes ago.

How has Rob's presence affected you guys' creative process?

He's great. In moving the process forward, he's so effortless and so easy to, kind of, have around. He's just a good vibe. So, when we've been working, he kind of moves with us really quick. He throws his two cents in once in a while. He's very quick. When me and James are working on an idea, we're kind of like, OK, try it this way and try it that way and try that. It just moves really quick and he can kind of move with that and also be a little bit of a balancing point between different ideas and different kinds of energies. It's like a Zen thing. I dunno if Zen and heavy metal go together, but there's something there, I'm telling ya. [Laughs] It's like a vibe that just works. It's hard to explain. And also, I don't want to be disrespectful to Jason Newsted. Because Jason Newsted really put a lot of effort into this. Fifteen years. He dedicated his whole life. It's difficult to talk about how great Rob is without dissing Jason Newsted, and that's not fair either.

Have you had any contact with Jason?

Yeah, I saw him at a System of a Down show two years ago. Great to see him. Hung out. Bullshitted. He keeps a pretty low profile. I don't see him a lot. It's not 1983. It's not like, I'll see you over at the show. It's not like that. But, you know, I saw him at System. It was cool to see him.

How are you feeling about the new record?

I don't think the world needs another fucking band member telling the fucking rest of the world how awesome their new record is, how it's the best thing they've ever done. How it's the heaviest thing they've ever done. And how everybody's just gonna fucking flip when they hear that album. I don't need to read another fucking quote from me about that. I feel great about it. Ask me six months from now. I'm too close to it, man. Yeah, I know that there's some people out there that are like, What's taking so long? and this and that. You know, it takes its time. There are no issues. It's been a really stress-free experience. An analogy is, say that, whatever number you put on it, it's an arbitrary number, let's say it takes a thousand hours to make a Metallica record. It still takes the same thousand hours. When we've worked, it's moved along fast. But the thousand hours has been spread out over two or three years instead of over a year because we don't work 18-hour days. We don't work six days a week. We don't want to tour every three months and we don't want to play European festivals every summer. We go to Japan and we go to South Africa and we take care of our kids. So, the people I've played it for like it: I played it for Bob Rock. He liked it. I played it for my dad; he liked it. I played it for, you know, [Alice in Chains'] Jerry Cantrell and Mike [Inez], and John [Dolmayan] from System, and a few of the hood rats, and they all like it. They all say the same thing. They all say it sounds like Metallica. That's the biggest compliment you can get, you know. [Laughs] When I sit and listen to it through other people's ears when I play it for other people, it sounds really, really lively to me, like guys are sweating, playing together for a live gig. It's not put together on a computer. It's the first record that we've made since Kill 'Em All that wasn't made to a click track. I hear that. It's a little loosey-goosey in a lot of places, and I hear that and I like that.

We did a story with King Diamond a few years ago where he was expressing his frustration with the fact that no matter what new record he makes, it's always going to be compared to Abigail, and Abigail isn't even a record anymore, it's, like, a landmark in metal history. You know, even if he made a record better than Abigail, it wouldn't be better than Abigail. Do you guys feel similarly conflicted about Master of Puppets and the, sort of, fetishization of that album?

That's a great question. It's a great point. I mean, yeah, as somebody who's got their feet obviously where you have them, yeah, of course. It's hard, but it's been part of the Metallica experience. You can sort of trace it back to Ride the Lightning. You can sort of, trace it back to the famous intro of "Fade to Black" when all the hardcore Slayer fans were jumping off bridges and slitting their wrists or whatever. It was an acoustic guitar at the intro to "Fade to Black." It seems like since then, part of the Metallica experience is 10 percent of dissent. It's part of the ride. At different times the numbers maybe go up and down. At different times, it affects you more or whatever, but it's always been there. There's always been somebody who's got a problem with something we do, and that's just part of it. You know, these new records, or what we're wearing, or what we're saying. What the fuck? It's part of Metallica. At different times and different period of my life you go through periods where it can hurt you, then you're fucking fucked. Not giving a fuck, going all the way and not giving a fuck, man. But the computer's brought in a whole new thing. Back in the day, it's like somebody talks some shit, you know who it is, you know where to find them. Now, it's like people sit there and kind of hide behind their anonymity and their computer. It's a different thing. It's OK. Listen, I get it more than most people. I'm a pretty perceptive guy. I hear what people say and I know where you live [Both laugh]. But, listen, I've said this before and you know, if?we've made what, nine records??if Reload is considered the worst, I'll put Reload up against anyone else's worst record. Seriously, that's the kind of kindergarten, sandbox shit in me. A lot of our fans really like it. I think there's some great songs on it. We've been playing "Devil's Dance" in the last few weeks; we've been playing "Memory Remains." Fucking "Fuel." OK, maybe not our best one, I mean, it's not bad. I mean, shit, we could have edited a few of the songs off. But rather that and a track record of running around and searching for all these different things and trying all these different things than putting out the same fucking record in a different sleeve every two years. You know what I mean? I'm proud of what we've done. Sure, a few blunders along the way. Bad white leather jackets or something. But I think, all in all?shit, dude, 25 years, 26 years, 27 years, that's not a bad track record. So, the fetishization of Master of Puppets...you know, I get it. Shit, at least we have a Master of Puppets. At least we have a Black Album. It's pretty cool. It's nothing bad. Shit, you know, a quarter of a century.

Yeah, it is pretty amazing. One of the things that I've been asking all the guys is, Are you kind of shocked that you're still the biggest metal band in the world? That no one's knocked you guys off the top?

[Laughs] What a strange question. Shocked? I don't know. There's not very much that shocks me. We're just doing what we do. I don't know. I have so much love and respect for so many other artists out there. There are so many bands that fucking get my dick hard every day while I watch them play or listen to them or whatever. Knocked us off? We're fortunate. We've got Machine Head, who are, like, the coolest of the cool and whose records I love. And you sit there and you tour with them for two weeks in Europe like we just did. I get off the bus and have a drink of Gatorade and the four members of Machine Head are, like, staring at me. [Drops jaw in expression of awe.] It makes you step up and bring it up a notch. You know what I mean? I listen?Iron Maiden put out a song a couple of months ago. It was awesome. I dunno. You're the journalist. You answer the fucking question. [Both laugh]. I think that we're just fortunate that a bunch of our shit somehow resonates with a lot of people and a bunch of our shit has found a way to end up being kind of timeless. We're lucky with that. You know, you go out and tour all the time. You play different songs. You play different set lists. You do all the things that?you do as much as we do, you want to keep the experience as new and exciting to keep doing what you're doing to the best of your ability. But, dethroning?I dunno. I can't answer that. [Laughs]

Well, let me put it this way, what I was sort of getting at is that in some ways, you would want, for the scene or for the genre or whatever, to inspire bands of that sort of caliber and, you know...

Well, that's a different thing. I think between Mastodon, Bullet, Machine Head, Trivium, the Sword, there are a lot of great bands. It's about...I have a 9-year-old and a 6-year-old; when I was 9 years old, the first thing I did in the morning was put a record on. I sat there and read the fucking sleeve notes. I studied the lyrics. Now with Game Boys and fucking this and that, I don't know if kids are as into music as we were when we were growing up. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it. You've got all these great bands but nobody breaks out. You've got MTV, you've got radio, everything's different. The landscape is different. It's a different generation. People don't sell 20 million. Back in the day, like, fuck, Megadeth went double platinum for three or four records in a row. Dave Mustaine was, like, on MTV. Slayer. It was something that was going on. Now it's a different thing, different numbers, different perceptions. Certainly in Europe, you go up to Finland or Sweden or some of those places, you know, things are nutty. People are showing up. But it's difficult to answer your question because it becomes about theories, it becomes about analogies, it becomes about the numbers and, fuck, I don't know. When I listen to the Sword record in my car every day, it gets my dick hard. I don't sit there so much and think about whether they're dethroning or have potential to dethrone Metallica or anybody else. I don't put myself on that pedestal. I just sit there and go, What a great fucking record. I'm really happy that I have that in my car.

You just mentioned, like, the change in the market and videogames and the Internet and all that. It seems like you guys are trying to tap into that a little bit with Guitar Hero and with that Mission Metallica sort of thing. Is it a whole new game?

I think increasingly so. I mean, the Guitar Hero stuff, it's fucking heaven-sent. I mean, it's priceless. I mean, to sit there and to play these games with my twins. It's awesome. My kids love Deep Purple. They love Black Sabbath. My 6-year-old, his favorite song over the last couple of weeks is "Mississippi Queen." It's awesome that they have access to get inspired like that. It's great that over the last few years that something great and positive has come out of videogames. I mean, my kids are way more into music just on the back of the Guitar Hero stuff than they were a year ago. You know what I mean? It's awesome. It's also a great thing to share. I mean, Internet, duh, of course. That's a no-brainer. We completely champion the Internet. I mean, five or six years ago, one of the biggest perceptions about that [Napster situation] was, Metallica hates the Internet. That's the biggest load of bullshit. We use the Internet to communicate with our fans. I don't pat myself on the back often, but I will pat ourselves on the back and say I do believe our website, you know, is one of the best of any band's out there in terms of communication with our fans. That's the link to the fans. We do everything we can. We have great people running these websites and communicating with the fans. Internet, of course. Mission Metallica, Guitar Hero and things, all this stuff. Of course.

So, 27 years later, how does this shit stay exciting for you?

You know, it goes through cycles. There are times where I look back on things where?I mean, the best thing that came out of that whole meltdown in '01/'02 was the fact that somehow we all walked away at different times but we came to the conclusions ourselves, we came to the facts ourselves, which is that we walked away with our eyes much more open to the moment and much more open to what was going on. Shit was just so fucking out of control in the '90s. I mean, we put four records out in four years. Think about that. Four years in a row we put a record out '96, '97, '98, '99, and everything that comes in the wake of it. We just never paused long enough to fucking appreciate it. It's really that simple. Now, you sit there and go, This is all so fucking cool. It's a rare thing. Three, four months ago I was down in L.A. and James had just started singing, and I was down with my lady and he was working down there and he sent me a text and he was like, "I heard you're in L.A." I'm just kind of chilling with [girlfriend, actress] Connie [Nielsen]. And he's like, "Come up." So I went up and just sat around and we had lunch together and I sat around while he was singing. It was like, This is really cool. And then the next day he was like, "You gonna come up again today?" and I was like, "Yeah." People start seeing us and going "You guys hang out together? That's great, because people don't do that." It's awesome. We fucking appreciate it. It's just fun. And the thing is, you know, I've, like, no aspirations outside of Metallica. If somebody said to me, "I hereby sentence you to not be in Metallica," or said, you know, "You can't make music with James Hetfield anymore," I think I'd just walk away. I think I'd throw myself into making movies or painting or something else. But it's also, I think that in some way, there was a point probably about halfway through that experience where I sort of resigned myself to the fact that there was a really good chance that it was not gonna work itself out. I prepared myself for the fact that it's been a great ride, but I'm not sure I can continue if it becomes conditional. I don't work real well with rules. Rock and roll is supposed to get away from that shit. Rules and conditions, I was like, "Oh, I dunno, boys." I kind of had to resign myself to look back and maybe it's not gonna go on anymore, and maybe because of that, that's why these days seem so awesome.

REVOLVER So, the big thing with you on the new album is that the solos are fucking back, man.

KIRK HAMMETT Yep, I'm playing my ass off and it feels good. You know, in retrospect, when I think about it, the last time I did solos for an album was on Garage Inc., which was 1998, 1999. As I was, like, recording the solos and listening to them back, I was like, Whoa, my playing style has totally changed. I went into a couple of different directions since the last time I was playing solos. So, when people hear it, it's gonna be a different sort of approach for me. It sounds similar to what I used to do. I'm really psyched about that and just curious as to what people are gonna say about how my style changed. It'll probably run the gamut from "Ah, it's really fucking great," to "Ah, he fucking sucks." So, I'm ready for it all. That's just the way it is. Especially with the Internet now. I mean, everyone's a critic nowadays whether they're qualified or not.

Do you read that shit online?

I don't read that shit because I was reading something about eight years ago; this guy was just tearing up the band, and somehow, some way I found out that this guy who is tearing up the band and he's saying all this crap, he's 12 years old! [Both laugh] So I don't read it. I don't read the Internet shit because, like I said, everyone's a critic whether they're qualified or not. You just have to follow your instincts and make sure you're doing the best you can possibly do.

Did you feel sort of vindicated that fans and critics all pretty much called bullshit on the lack of solos on St. Anger?

It was definitely a big surprise to me. I had no idea that people would miss guitar solos that much. There's no way I could have known that. It was a major uproar. I mean, I can understand from the audience point of view, but even the critics! Even the critics, who spent a large amount of time fucking saying, "Yeah, you know, those guitar solos are such a wank thing." All of a sudden, they're saying, "Where are the guitar solos?" So, it is frustrating. But, at this point in time, I don't give a fuck. You really can't, especially these days.

There's that little scene in Some Kind of Monster, and your comment turned out to be really prescient, because now it seems like we're in, like, a new hey-day of solos.

I don't know if that videogame has anything to do with it or not, but if it does, thank God. God bless it. Because we need more fucking musicians.

So, this new breed of shredders and soloists, did they, like, sort of light a fire under your ass, in terms of your playing for this record?

Just the fact that people are soloing again and doing it really well has totally lit a fire underneath my ass to the point where I went back to all the bands and all the guitar players that influenced me greatly and just started listening to the things that really moved me when I was younger and discovered that that stuff still moves me now. I got a lot of inspiration from just listening to that stuff. It was just a cool thing because I thought that listening to all that stuff was part of my past and it wasn't capable of influencing me anymore. But I couldn't have been more wrong. When it came time to record solos, I was just very, very inspired by the past, my own past, and what's going on now in the present: The fact that kids are playing great guitar solos and people are listening?and listening enthusiastically.

When I talked to James, he said he was kind of egging you on in terms of your playing.

Oh, yeah, totally. He was like, "Come on, man, play some stuff that you'd hear on an old Thin Lizzy album" or something. Or, "Play some [UFO/Scorpions guitarist Michael] Schenker stuff." And I'm like, Yeah, fuck yeah. Because he and I, we came from the same batch of influences and the same era of music, so we could totally relate. When he throws out something like Michael Schenker, I know exactly what he's talking about. But it's great when other band members egg you on because it makes you, sort of, rise to the occasion and it makes you step up. It's great. When I'm really, really in the moment in the studio, it's like being onstage. I'm fucking running around and fucking playing my ass off like there's a fucking audience in the control room. Usually, there's just the engineer and maybe Lars or James or Rob or whoever. It's a good thing, man. It's a good thing that we're back to guitar solos again. But it's a good thing that St Anger was made the way that it was because if we had made it any other way we might not have finished it and might not be together as a band today. So, I will go on the record to say that there was a reason why there were no guitar solos on the album, and not because of some trend or something; it was more so that we wanted to come across as a band. No one was outshining anyone else and no egocentric sort of, like, spotlights put on anyone, which is what we had to do back then because of the situation. It was such a tender situation that if we would have let it go in an egocentric direction, there might have been a big flare up and we potentially could have broken up.

I know that kind of the mission statement producer Rick Rubin gave to you guys was to try and tap into the spirit of when you guys were writing albums like Master of Puppets, and to not be afraid of referencing your classic albums. Previous to Rick's suggestion that you work that way, had you guys been conscious of doing it the other way and trying not to repeat yourselves?

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what the whole '90s were. From "The Black Album," to Load, to Reload, to the S&M thing, we were consciously, subconsciously, I think a little of both, trying to distance ourselves from the music we made in the '80s, and that's what we came up with in the '90s. Also, there came a point where we just didn't feel comfortable playing the way we played in the '80s in the '90s. But now that we're opening our minds up to that '80s way of thinking again, it's...what we created in 2008 sounds completely new and fresh. It sounds somewhat familiar, but it's that kind of familiarity that you can't quite put your finger on. You know? I mean, it's like when you write a great riff. You're like, Fucking hell, have I heard that before? And you just search and search and you've never heard that before. The first time I played the riff for "Of Wolf and Man," I showed it to those guys and I said, "Well, there's a familiarity about it but I can't figure it out." And they said, "Really?" Because it didn't sound like anything that they could think of. So, that's a good thing.

You had your first child during the making of this record, right?

Yeah. I managed to build a house, have my first child, and my second child is due next week. [Since the interview, Hammett's second son, Vincenzo Kainalu, was born on June 28.] So these last three years have been very, very fruitful for me in that I built a house, had two children, and managed to make an album. For a fucking hack who likes to sit around and play guitar, I think I've been pretty productive.

How has becoming a dad changed your perspective on things?

Well, I found another source of inspiration for me, as far as doing guitar solos. I just really, really wanted to do a good job, so later on when my son is older and can understand, I can say, "Listen to that son. I'm playing that way because you were inspiring me very much to do the best that I could." So I could later on say, "Listen to that, son. That's the result of being inspired by you so you can listen to how much effect you had on my life in the studio when you were, like, six months old."

That's really cool.

I get real emotional when I talk about that. But that was one of my main inspirations.

Something I was really impressed by, just at our photo shoot today, was that there were an iPod playing the whole time, and you guys were, like, identifying shit, had strong opinions on shit. It seems like you guys are pretty tapped into what's going on in metal.

'Cause we read Revolver, bro. [Both laugh] You know, we're musicians. We're in it. People give us CDs all of the time. You hear stuff. I have friends that go, "Hey, you gotta hear this, man. It's really great." You know, it hasn't stopped. It never stopped, really. We never really stopped listening to modern stuff. We've seen a lot of bands come and go that we love, and that's a shame. And it's weird when you just think, Wow, remember when we used to tour with them. They're so fucking great. Why can't they get their shit together now? You know, there's some of that. But there's a lot of great bands out there nowadays who we like and are more than happy to give the opportunity to tour with us because that usually helps any band no matter who they are. But yeah, we're pretty tapped in. I mean, we pretty much know what's going on. I mean, you have to. If you don't you're gonna be out of touch and you're just gonna get stuck with one world view, and that world view will be immensely irrelevant.

Considering that you guys are so tapped in, are you guys shocked that you're still the biggest metal band in the world?

I'm pretty shocked, yeah. I think about it a lot. I think, Will there ever be a band like us to follow in our footsteps? But then I think about it and I thought, Was there a band to follow in the footsteps of the Rolling Stones? Was there a band to follow in the footsteps of Led Zeppelin? So, maybe I'm just thinking the impossible. But there still needs to be a new modern band that has the impact, and they haven't showed up yet. Or maybe they're out there and I just haven't heard them yet. Do you know what I'm talking about?

At Revolver, we have this conversation all the time, and it's weird because it seems like there's been bands that seem like they have the potential?you know, Pantera, Lamb of God...

...Slipknot, Korn, yeah. But it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. My brother-in-law came up to me and was like, "Are there any bands who are in their 20s that you guys are intimidated by?" And I thought about it long and hard and I'm like, "No." I wish there was, you know. I wish there was because it would give us a nice challenge and motivate us to maybe step up to their plate, whatever their plate might be. It just hasn't happened yet. And if it has happened, maybe it went by so quickly that we didn't notice. I dunno. I don't have an answer to that question. I mean, changes in the market, situations with the record companies, I think that that has a lot to do with it, but really, it just has everything to do with sitting down and writing good songs.

REVOLVER So I guess you deserve all the credit for the new Metallica record, Death Magnetic?

ROB TRUJILLO Yeah, give me all the credit, man. I'll just take it all. I accept. [Laughs] No. You know, the greatest thing about this body of music is that it was a very collaborative effort. Lars and James, definitely. When those two go at it, whether it's head butting or anything, there's just something magical. It's a great honor for me to be able to experience the building and creating process of Metallica through Lars and James. It's like going to the greatest university of music, the highest standard of rock-and-roll education.

From what I've heard, most of these songs sort of grew out of the jam room. Is that true?

A lot of them did. The seeds came from the jam room. But then sometimes that evolved into a different riff or groove or whatever. It's interesting for me because over the course of the, I don't know, couple of years or whatever we were touring, a lot of where I was coming from was just trying to concentrate on learning the catalogue. You know what I mean? These guys were like, "Why don't you get this new riff?" and I'm just going, "Man, I gotta learn 'Phantom Lord'" or, you know, "Metal Militia" or something.

Yeah, well, these last few years you guys have been pulling, like, every old song out of the vault.

That just kind of became the new theme; it was like, Let's play songs that we never played. Let's mix it up. Let's do it sort of spontaneous. So it was always a challenge, and I was always trying to stay three steps ahead. It was difficult to do that. I feel much more comfortable now because I'm in tune with the catalogue. We've been doing it a while now, so I'm all right. At the same time, though, obscure songs like "Dyers Eve," you know, I was able to motivate the band to play a song like that, which had never been played. A couple of years ago we toured Master of Puppets, kind of a 20th anniversary of the album, and we played the entire album top to bottom live. And that's something?you know, "Orion" had never been played live?so that was a wonderful experience for us.

I was at the Download Fest performance, and I have to admit I had a little glint in my eye during "Orion."

It was a special moment for us. It also coincidentally happened when we were creating a lot of the new music for this album. I feel that the spirit and some of the dynamics and the vibe and the arrangements live in what we're about to release. I'm not saying it sounds like that. I'm saying there's something there that kind of goes hand in hand with what we've created out of that old-school magic.

How long would you say it took before you felt truly comfortable as a member of Metallica?

Well, I know that the guys in the band really wanted me to feel comfortable from the beginning, they did. And that's a hard thing to do. You're talking about a band that's been around for over 25 years, and you can't just walk into a situation like this, especially when an album's being created. You've got opinions and you can share them and they're open to that, which is great. It was an honor for me to be a part of the writing process. Back in the day it was, like, Submit your cassettes to Lars and James; they'll listen to your riffs. See you in six months. But they wanted me there all the time. Kirk was having his first kid, so he wasn't there a lot of the time. He was in Hawaii. So, I was there, and sometimes I was the mediator. So, obviously, I will offer suggestions when I really feel necessary. I'm not gonna just butt into their magical moments or their head-butting contests sometimes. You gotta just let those guys run with it. You gotta be able to kind of cater to and balance that creative spirit that they have. It's intense; it's been there forever. It's the magic of Metallica; the way they arrange songs, their music. It's great. Definitely, they wanted me to feel comfortable to the point where there was the whole money issue [as captured in the documentary Some Kind of Monster, Metallica gave Trujillo a million-dollar signing advance]?I mean, I would have done it for free. Come on, this is Metallica. I mean, when they called me to audition, I was like, "I would love to come in and play 'Battery' with you guys and send me home, I don't care. I get to jam with Metallica."

Has it been weird for you with this "Mission Metallica" thing, on top of Some Kind of Monster? The fact that basically since you've been in Metallica, there's been cameras around all the time?

When I first joined the band?actually, not even when I first joined the band?when I was going for my first audition, I was being driven to the studio and I get a phone call and they say, "Oh, by the way, you don't mind the camera thing, do you?" And I'm just kind of like, "Oh, what do you mean?" "Well, there's gonna be a film crew there documenting all of this. That's cool, right?" [Laughs] "I guess so," you know.

You're not gonna say no.

Yeah, what am I gonna say? And it was weird for me because prior to that, with Ozzy, they were filming his TV show, and I was trying to stay away from those cameras. You didn't see a whole lot of me in that series because I was trying to avoid the cameras. And all of a sudden it's like, well, I was thinking to myself, You're not gonna be able to avoid this. They're making this documentary and there's just too much involved with filming the audition process, the whole thing. So, I had to kind of live with it. It's strange. A lot of what's been captured for "Mission Metallica" is not, like, really a film crew. It's just a couple of cameras set up, like Big Brother's watching you. So it's a little easier than having four guys follow you around in your face the whole time. The beauty of the "Mission Metallica" deal is that there's definitely some special moments captured. The creation of this music, some of that as far as the recording goes, and funny moments, a lot of funny moments, which is good. Believe it or not, there's a lot of humor that kind of goes hand in hand with Metallica, just tons of it. Lars, James, and Kirk are funny guys, man. I've had the good fortune to work around some humor, whether with Ozzy or whatever, but Metallica is hilarious at times.

To what extent have you had to adjust to a new level of celebrity? Are you recognized on the street now a lot more often?

It's very interesting. In San Francisco or in Los Angeles, people are cool. No one's, like, running up to you and acting crazy. When you're in other parts of the world, it's very different. My wife and I tried to grab lunch in Ireland and we had these cats following us around. And it's great, you appreciate that, but at the same time you also want them to respect your privacy. There are times when people, especially when they're drinking, it gets to be a bit much. Overall, it's been pretty good; people have been pretty respectful. I'm starting to understand it a bit more. At first I didn't see it; I didn't see that there was a change. Maybe I didn't want to accept it. I feel that overall I'm pretty grounded. That's one of my things; I always try to keep two feet on the floor. Even when I got the gig, I was like the boy in the bubble. Don't let the outside world kind of affect me and my focus and what I have to do. I can only give 100% and do the best I can. No matter how much money or fame or fortune, to me, there's always gotta be a work ethic with Metallica. These guys, they thrive on a strong work ethic. Whether it's songwriting or putting the show together, or the flow of the show, just stuff like that. And you can't really cut corners because they're not into that. So I always really try to stay focused. I didn't know what was going on in L.A. because I was in San Francisco, but I know there was probably a lot of people really excited because of where I'm from and this is Metallica. When I got back to L.A., whenever I'm in L.A., again, people are cool, man. I'll be walking down the street or walking my kid down by the beach or something and you'll get the "METALLICAAAAA!" and that's the extent of it. It doesn't get too much crazier than that. And the other side of that, too, is the house that I was living in then, yes, there were people that occasionally drove up or would kind of stare in or, you know, knock on the door. People from high school would show up that I hadn't seen since I was 17 years old. Maybe they had a bit of a drug problem or whatever and are borderline on the streets. That thing actually happened to me a couple of times; that was really, really weird. Overall, it hasn't been that bad. At a certain point, you go, Wow, OK, this is Metallica, I'm in Metallica, and you know, people are gonna want pictures or autographs, and you gotta try and do the best you can. That's the bottom line. They're your fans. We always do meet-and-greets for our fans; we never stray from that. It's really important. We do the best we can.

[Brandon Geist]
Executive Editor of Revolver Magazine